I know trauma is a tough word. Bu frankly speaking, this whole House construction stuff has pissed me off after having struggled personally for last 11 months. I just wanted to share my experiences and understand if its just me or others on same boat as well.
1> The construction started with all good feeling, having shortlisted a contractor after comparing work and quotation from different vendor (I selected one referred to me from this forum).
2> The work started and went at decided pace for 1-2 months ( My big learning was not including delay penalty in contract )
3> From 3rd month, work started getting delayed and then 4 months into it - almost snail pace for 1 month. Reason given was personal issues with contractor. Not only pace but workmanship also suffered and even the person who introduced that contractor to me through this forum was shocked.
4> I had started work in March end with a completion date of Dec end.
5> With so much of suffering, I had to terminate my contract with that contractor in Oct ( and one more guy in my layout was also using his services from May, and eventually he also terminated him in Dec)
6> Having already lost so much time , till October end only shell of house was completed and 60% block work.
7> Another guy took up the work with promise of delivering by Jan end, though he almost finished by feb end.
But for final finishes things kept getting delayed.
8> Then started trouble with Carpenter, Plumber - All of these were taken off Contractor scope as he was just a civil guy.
9> Plumber ran away with half work as I trusted him and paid more than work in advance, because of this learning i started being alert and payment only as per work.
10> Now with that logic, people (atleast whom i found) were also not keen on working and will not turn up for days delaying everything.
And now i have reached a stage that I had to change plumber (he ran away) once, contractor once, and now Carpenter twice.
Is it only me or thats how things work here, and how do we learn and arrest these issues ?
Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
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riturajmnit
- Posts: 110
- Joined: January 29th, 2014, 4:25 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
I am in the same boat.
My work started in October 2014 and finished in feb 2016. The expected duration was only about 11 months max. I had pre- scheduled relocation in May 2016 and was hoping to stay in the new house for 6-8 months before leaving. Now I have moved in but still settling things out.
Runaway guys : Flooring contractor, Painting contractors 1 & 2 & 3.
. I finished the painting with daily labour for 5 days after 3 of them ran away.
Civil labour contractor used to work very fast when there is a payment stage, otherwise he used to be busy with his large work of an upcoming college.
Whom I will recommend to fellow members:
Plumbing contractor: I was reluctant to give him work initially. Finally it turned out to be the best contract.
MS fabricator was also reasonable and delivered on time.
One thing we can do is to have an agreement with all these contractors mentioning all the terms and conditions and penalty if they stop or delay the work. Usually we do this only with civil contractors.
My work started in October 2014 and finished in feb 2016. The expected duration was only about 11 months max. I had pre- scheduled relocation in May 2016 and was hoping to stay in the new house for 6-8 months before leaving. Now I have moved in but still settling things out.
Runaway guys : Flooring contractor, Painting contractors 1 & 2 & 3.
. I finished the painting with daily labour for 5 days after 3 of them ran away.Civil labour contractor used to work very fast when there is a payment stage, otherwise he used to be busy with his large work of an upcoming college.
Whom I will recommend to fellow members:
Plumbing contractor: I was reluctant to give him work initially. Finally it turned out to be the best contract.
MS fabricator was also reasonable and delivered on time.
One thing we can do is to have an agreement with all these contractors mentioning all the terms and conditions and penalty if they stop or delay the work. Usually we do this only with civil contractors.
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riturajmnit
- Posts: 110
- Joined: January 29th, 2014, 4:25 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
Problem is how many contracts we will do 
and yes my biggest learning is get a lump sump quote as they find a way or two to twist quotations and thats where things go haywire 
and yes my biggest learning is get a lump sump quote as they find a way or two to twist quotations and thats where things go haywire -
ardesarchitects
- Posts: 1080
- Joined: June 20th, 2009, 2:12 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
Hi ,
I would put this in my own version
1. Loose time along with money (forget the quality and workmanship) - labor contract with out knowledge of construction or dependent of x y z
2. Loose time with out losing money ( quality is assured but not workmanship) - Labor contract with good knowledge of construction and you dedicate your self till the construction is over .Dedicating means literally taking care like your baby .
3. Stick to time lines with out losing money ( its only on paper and a pure pseudo statement ) - There is no contract in this world to satisfy this case
4. Stick to time lines by 60-70% with spending more money ( not losing money ) - Item wise or well drafted lump-sum contract with pro / ethical contractor.
In all these cases architect can only support the owner with technical & design details ,with certain amount of monitoring .Contract is a very critical guy just by looking at previous works one cannot gauge him.Any contractor who ever comes with best clarity in the contract can be considered as credible and dependable guy.
Contractors change based on the margins they get and how loose your contract is drafted .Make sure your contract is not just about cem,bricks and steel , there are about 200+ items that should always be listed in the contract .
Regards
Ar.Praveen.N
Ardes Architects and Interior designers
ardesarchitects@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/ardes.architects
http://www.ardesarchitects.com
I would put this in my own version
1. Loose time along with money (forget the quality and workmanship) - labor contract with out knowledge of construction or dependent of x y z
2. Loose time with out losing money ( quality is assured but not workmanship) - Labor contract with good knowledge of construction and you dedicate your self till the construction is over .Dedicating means literally taking care like your baby .
3. Stick to time lines with out losing money ( its only on paper and a pure pseudo statement
) - There is no contract in this world to satisfy this case 4. Stick to time lines by 60-70% with spending more money ( not losing money ) - Item wise or well drafted lump-sum contract with pro / ethical contractor.
In all these cases architect can only support the owner with technical & design details ,with certain amount of monitoring .Contract is a very critical guy just by looking at previous works one cannot gauge him.Any contractor who ever comes with best clarity in the contract can be considered as credible and dependable guy.
Contractors change based on the margins they get and how loose your contract is drafted .Make sure your contract is not just about cem,bricks and steel , there are about 200+ items that should always be listed in the contract .
Regards
Ar.Praveen.N
Ardes Architects and Interior designers
ardesarchitects@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/ardes.architects
http://www.ardesarchitects.com
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bloremanager
- Posts: 69
- Joined: July 2nd, 2015, 10:46 am
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
I only built one floor above the ground floor, added stairs, some demolition work was involved and it took 15 months straight to complete every activity including interiors. The contractor had promised to complete it in 8 months. This contractor was a relative of my relative.
Best thing is to lower your expectations and never try to speed up too fast. After all, you are probably never going to build again. So take your time to finalize the right contractor. Also avoid negotiating too hard with the contractor. You will see the consequences far too soon. Try negotiating instead for higher reference rate for tiles, granite, MS-works like better guage for gate, stairs. Almost all contractors have minimum percentage profit margin in mind (i.e. their rate/sq.ft to execute the works)
Almost all contractors do not like frequent design changes. Please list all your needs and wants clearly and go through with your family one by one.
Avoid trying to skimp BBMP rules with regard to setbacks. Also get your home design correct within 2-3 iterations with your architect. Please decide whether you want to incorporate Vaastu as it could be quite difficult to follow it 100%.
I was fortunate that my contractor could get the plumber, wood guy, electrical, MS-Works from his list of people he uses. However, it helped that i had a good idea of several tasks associated with several activities. It is very important to maintain good relationships with your contractor. Never ever lose cool while interacting with them, humorize as well where need be. It is your house, you have to sound knowledgeable and not be a total nube while dealing with these folks. Please read exhaustively and learn lot of the tasks involved in various stages of construction.
Best thing is to lower your expectations and never try to speed up too fast. After all, you are probably never going to build again. So take your time to finalize the right contractor. Also avoid negotiating too hard with the contractor. You will see the consequences far too soon. Try negotiating instead for higher reference rate for tiles, granite, MS-works like better guage for gate, stairs. Almost all contractors have minimum percentage profit margin in mind (i.e. their rate/sq.ft to execute the works)
Almost all contractors do not like frequent design changes. Please list all your needs and wants clearly and go through with your family one by one.
Avoid trying to skimp BBMP rules with regard to setbacks. Also get your home design correct within 2-3 iterations with your architect. Please decide whether you want to incorporate Vaastu as it could be quite difficult to follow it 100%.
I was fortunate that my contractor could get the plumber, wood guy, electrical, MS-Works from his list of people he uses. However, it helped that i had a good idea of several tasks associated with several activities. It is very important to maintain good relationships with your contractor. Never ever lose cool while interacting with them, humorize as well where need be. It is your house, you have to sound knowledgeable and not be a total nube while dealing with these folks. Please read exhaustively and learn lot of the tasks involved in various stages of construction.
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Kiran Kumar K
- Posts: 134
- Joined: May 27th, 2013, 8:57 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
good & bad things are coming out ..............good no doubt this forum is mind blowing for the newcomer to learn but u people also should be consideringly flexible for the outcome of the product u desire.
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
Bloremanager
you pointed some of the real facts.
1. Anyone who goes for constructing a house, must have well planned, freeze their requirements well in advance and must be ready to spare sufficient time.
Owners often changes their requirement based on the feedback they get from their well wishers(who give suggestions for free of cost) while their work is
already in progress. This is the biggest fault they do. Moreover they expect the contractor to do all the rework FREE OF COST. this is the main reason for
differences and strained relationship between the owner and the contractor.
2. Structural activity always moves faster. But remaining works i.e, plumbing, electrical, flooring, painting, wood work takes more time. Moreover each activity is executed
by different set of people and co-ordination and synchronization among each other is the biggest issue here. So do not expect things to go in the same phase as happened in
the case of structure.
3. Many times, owners fix their 'House warming' date first and in order to meet that deadline, they put unreasonable pressure on the executors. Every time it doesn't work.
4. Also remember that, the people who are executing your work is also human being. They also need to get the work done from another human being. Always there is scope
for errors/issues/differences. So always don't blame the other side for everything.
B'cos of these problems only, nowadays many people are not ready to go for construction of independent house.
you pointed some of the real facts.
1. Anyone who goes for constructing a house, must have well planned, freeze their requirements well in advance and must be ready to spare sufficient time.
Owners often changes their requirement based on the feedback they get from their well wishers(who give suggestions for free of cost) while their work is
already in progress. This is the biggest fault they do. Moreover they expect the contractor to do all the rework FREE OF COST. this is the main reason for
differences and strained relationship between the owner and the contractor.
2. Structural activity always moves faster. But remaining works i.e, plumbing, electrical, flooring, painting, wood work takes more time. Moreover each activity is executed
by different set of people and co-ordination and synchronization among each other is the biggest issue here. So do not expect things to go in the same phase as happened in
the case of structure.
3. Many times, owners fix their 'House warming' date first and in order to meet that deadline, they put unreasonable pressure on the executors. Every time it doesn't work.
4. Also remember that, the people who are executing your work is also human being. They also need to get the work done from another human being. Always there is scope
for errors/issues/differences. So always don't blame the other side for everything.
B'cos of these problems only, nowadays many people are not ready to go for construction of independent house.
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
One big problem house owners don't understand is they are not getting the house done for charity and builder needs to make profit(Depends on size and quality that owner expects). They need to also understand that civil work is not high tech work to stick to a schedule and deliver with zero issue post completion. I am not saying its impossible but doing it with a large group of uneducated people having diff skills is very challenging.
The builder doesn't get a salary for the work he does so the owner needs to understand that he definitely owes to give a managers salary for almost an year as profit to the builder along with understanding that its his house and co-operate rather then cribbing daily based on relatives/neighbours comments.
The builder doesn't get a salary for the work he does so the owner needs to understand that he definitely owes to give a managers salary for almost an year as profit to the builder along with understanding that its his house and co-operate rather then cribbing daily based on relatives/neighbours comments.
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riturajmnit
- Posts: 110
- Joined: January 29th, 2014, 4:25 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
Thanks For your input guys.
I doubt if any correction can be done w.r.t profit margin.
As an owner or client, we take bids from multiple people to select one and we expect them to have duly understood the case and then only bid for it.
If there is change in design, its expected to pay for that. But most of issues start when they quote something to take the project and then start including stuff here and there beyond that.
Just in case for my carpenter, as it was just door and windows, I didnt do any agreement and just got the agreed rates noted in a Notepad.
Of course those rates were agreed after comparing with 2-3 carpenters quote. And then in middle of work, he said that rate was for one side of door, or he will charge the size for whole door including frames (though he is doing door alone), so all these things ofcourse washes off the trust imposed.
And the biggest problem I have seen in these cases is, they shuffle multiple project without having that man power. And they will emotionally drain you to release advance payment (with gimmick of no money and stuff) and eventually when they feel they have been paid more than work, they take up work somewhere else delaying your work.
So you are at their mercy because you have already paid more, and all the drama unfolds of not turning up for days, delaying everything.
The toughest learning is never pay upfront and ask them to first finish and then take payment or staged payment for even smallest work. Get all that written and recorded.
I doubt if any correction can be done w.r.t profit margin.
As an owner or client, we take bids from multiple people to select one and we expect them to have duly understood the case and then only bid for it.
If there is change in design, its expected to pay for that. But most of issues start when they quote something to take the project and then start including stuff here and there beyond that.
Just in case for my carpenter, as it was just door and windows, I didnt do any agreement and just got the agreed rates noted in a Notepad.
Of course those rates were agreed after comparing with 2-3 carpenters quote. And then in middle of work, he said that rate was for one side of door, or he will charge the size for whole door including frames (though he is doing door alone), so all these things ofcourse washes off the trust imposed.
And the biggest problem I have seen in these cases is, they shuffle multiple project without having that man power. And they will emotionally drain you to release advance payment (with gimmick of no money and stuff) and eventually when they feel they have been paid more than work, they take up work somewhere else delaying your work.
So you are at their mercy because you have already paid more, and all the drama unfolds of not turning up for days, delaying everything.
The toughest learning is never pay upfront and ask them to first finish and then take payment or staged payment for even smallest work. Get all that written and recorded.
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ardesarchitects
- Posts: 1080
- Joined: June 20th, 2009, 2:12 pm
Re: Post Construction: Learnings and Trauma :)
Hi rituraj
I agree with your views but its our responsibility to get the full details from contractors / carpenters /labors because they are in the field many things are assumed by them as default .
For example painting a window grill is not one time the area but its 1.5 times the area should be paid to painter ( as per civil works code ).
Paper work before you make contractor work is very very important and you need to get in to micro details like payment mode, schedule vs work bench marks .To be frank many doesn't go in to these because some where they are worried about contractor / labor will hike the price more the details we ask but in contrast we will be saving lot time and reworks costs .
Regards
Ar.Praveen.N
Ardes Architects and Interior designers
ardesarchitects@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/ardes.architects
http://www.ardesarchitects.com
I agree with your views but its our responsibility to get the full details from contractors / carpenters /labors because they are in the field many things are assumed by them as default .
For example painting a window grill is not one time the area but its 1.5 times the area should be paid to painter ( as per civil works code ).
Paper work before you make contractor work is very very important and you need to get in to micro details like payment mode, schedule vs work bench marks .To be frank many doesn't go in to these because some where they are worried about contractor / labor will hike the price more the details we ask but in contrast we will be saving lot time and reworks costs .
Regards
Ar.Praveen.N
Ardes Architects and Interior designers
ardesarchitects@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/ardes.architects
http://www.ardesarchitects.com