Water purifier, softner for homes

[tvsh]

In our case, the water softner is in between the sump and the overhead storage tank. So even if the delivery to the WC is separate, the water is already softened by the softner. If you want to have 2 types of water delivered, you need to have 2 tanks, one with softened water and the other without softened water for WC use. I am not sure if the water has to be force fed into the softner to work. If the softner works on gravity fed water, then you could probably do with one overhead tank.

[JollyRogers]

I just happened to see a 3M Product for filteration which removes the hardness of water and ensures that there is no scaling on taps. I saw this in Sunrise Ceramics (Opp. of Dell) and they informed me that device costed about 7k and comes with 1 year warranty. If you are just looking for a device which ensures that you have clean taps & not for a water purifier by itself, this should be a wonderful device. Quite economical and no scaling on taps.

[blrsiteseeker]

In our case, the water softner is in between the sump and the overhead storage tank. So even if the delivery to the WC is separate, the water is already softened by the softner. If you want to have 2 types of water delivered, you need to have 2 tanks, one with softened water and the other without softened water for WC use. I am not sure if the water has to be force fed into the softner to work. If the softner works on gravity fed water, then you could probably do with one overhead tank.

That is exactly how ours is setup - buffered between the sump and the overhead tank. So all water into the house is softened. The softener has really helped stop scaling on our fixtures. I have been told that many of my neighbors had a lot of scaling and fixtures were ruined in some cases. Ours seem to look clean so far, thanks to the softener.

[aries31]

Please note that, when you "soften" the Calcium and Magnesium in the water that cause hardness are replaced by the Sodium ions. While charging the absorbed Ca and Mg ions on the resin are replaced with sodium. So the softened water is high in Sodium and cannot be used for drinking etc directly (without RO) esp. if someone in your home is having high BP (since the water is high in sodium) but is fine for washing clothes, utensils, bathing etc

[blrsiteseeker]

Thank you for the heads up regarding sodium. We do have an RO filter and the water that comes out of it is sweet (never salty). The same person who provided the softener also installed the RO filter for us. He did analysis of the water at several points - one prior to entering the softener and then after softening and then after filtration. Showed us difference in all of them.

[blrsiteseeker]

blrsiteseeker,

Can you tell which brand of softener did you buy and share the details of the softener ?

Thanks
Vimal

I have been getting pms and mails asking for contact number. So to save replying each individual, I will post it here. Venkatesh, phone - 9900434343 (for softener and filter).

[maheshv]

I thought I will put down my research and understanding here so that it clears my head and also help folks
Also asking few questions, please help me if you can...

Currently plumbing work is in progress...

Source of water for my house,
1)From common borwell of our layout (No own borwell)
2) Water Tanker (most of the time water supplied by layout is not enough)
3) Rain water - I am planning to install Rainy filter and send the water to sump
4) Cauvery water when supplied in future

Water flow
Sump --> Overhead tank1 --> Solar heater --> House (overflow of overhead tank1 connected to overhead tank2 for cold water which again goes to house)

Requirement 1 - Whole house water filter (not purifier for drinking water)
I want to remove sediment, sand, dust etc., and if possible bacteria before the water gets pumped/reaches overhead tank. So ideally filter should be placed...
submersible pump -->Filter --> Overhead tank

Please recommend a filter which can do this job.

Question,
Will this place strain on submersible pump?
Can I filter the water even before it reaches sump?
Can I place the filter before submersible pump so that life of the pump is also extended?

Requirement 2 - Remove water hardness.
I am thinking of below setup
Sump --> submersible pump -->Filter -->Softener -->overhead tank1 --> solar water heater and secondary overhead tank2

After research I found there are two options to treat hard water and both of them have there limitations
a) Water Softener - Already discussed in this forum. Softener will remove Calcium and Magnesium which makes water hard and replace it with Sodium
Advantage
- Soft water is good for skin and hair
- better cloth washing
- No scaling on fixture, extends life of washing machine, pipeline etc.,
- Reduced usage of soap, detergent, shampoo
- I can install spring Solar water heater which is 10k lesser than induction based solar water heater which is meant for hard water. Plus yearly maintenance of induction solar water heater is removed (around 1k to replace fluid) --> http://www.emmveesolar.com/products/solarizer-ultra

Disadvantage
High Sodium content in water which is basically salt,
- Cannot water plants - salt in water will kill plants, hence I will need to make completely different arrangement for roof garden. Also used soft water going out through sewage line is harmful to ecology. Process to remove salt from water is very difficult
- Periodical regeneration - If I buy manual unit every 15 to 20 days, I will have to take time to do this.
- Regeneration takes around 200 litres of water and it cannot be utilized for anything
- High initial Cost (around 34 to 40k) and maintenance cost - Resin beads needs to be added every 6months to one year, every few years they must be completely changed. Resin are expensive, I think 1kg costs Rs.130. Please let me know if you know the exact cost.

- Have to use RO purifier to remove sodium before drinking - this is fine, not a big disadvantage as we already have an RO and will have to use it whether or not softener is installed
- Regeneration salt is not much of cost, very cheap and readily available

b) polyphosphate filter - this works differently than water softener. polyphosphate will mix with dissolved substance like Calcium and Magnesium and make them neutral. Hence Calcium and Magnesium will loose it property of scaling on fixture. Water does not become soft but it will reduce the effect of hardness (to what extent - I do not know)

Currently I know only one product which is from 3M, below adv, disadv is based on that. If you know other polyphosphate filters available in market, please let me know.
Advantage
- slightly cheaper than water softener. Initial cost (25k) and maintenance (cartridge replacement is around 3k to 6k)
- No need of adding filter as this comes with filter which is of .5micron. This will save me around 10 to 15k of adding separate filter which I discussed above
- Filter is transparent unit, we can see how much dirt is collected and clean it
- I do not have to plan a different setup of water supply for roof garden
- I can install spring Solar water heater which is 10k lesser than induction based solar water heater which is meant for hard water. Plus yearly maintenance of induction solar water heater is removed (around 1k to replace fluid) --> http://www.emmveesolar.com/products/solarizer-ultra

Disadvantage
- 3m filter inlet and outlet is 3/4 inch, our submersible pump to overhead tank line is 1inch pipe. This will place additional load on pump and pump can fail. To over come this problem 3m asked me to buy two filters and place them parallel. One filter is 12.5k and two filter will be 25k
- polyphosphate helps bacteria grow faster
- Not as effective as water softener (need more data on this)

So now I am thinking of using a combination of both
Use polyphosphate filter as whole house filter. Place it...
pump --> filter --> overhead tank1
Use smaller softener only for solar water heater. Place it...
pump --> filter --> overhead tank1 --> Softener --> Solar heater (overflow line from Overhead tank1 will go to overhead tank2 for cold water)

Adv
polyphosphate filter cost 25k + yearly 6k cartridge cost, saves cost of buying separate filter to remove sediment which I guess will be 10 to 15k
smaller softener cost 7k so saving of approx. 3Ok
Will get good soft water for bathing and washing cloths ( I have given hot water point in almost all location)
Reduced sodium usage which will again reduce cost of resin beads and regeneration, also good for ecology
Can use spring solar heater so additional 10k saving
Watering plants from overhead tank2

Disadv
I will have to climb to terrace where softener will be place for regeneration (Overhead tank is placed above staircase headroom) If I was using whole house softener then I could have placed it near car parking

[Karthicv]

In case if you are planning for a Softener, you can check the following, atleast the hassle related to filling of Salt, recylcing etc is not there, I have bought one for my new house and I met a gentleman who had been using it for several years, he seems to be very happy with the outcome and I ended up purchasing the same...

http://aquagenesisusa.com/

[mohan_hu]

Is this available in india...

[maheshv]

thanks Karthicv. If it works as advertise by the company6, then this will be my ideal solution.

Mohan
it is. http://www.scalewatcher.in/

also regarding Whole house water filter. I finally found the answer. Big blue filter. cost around 3.5k